Warsim's Point

Could some of the more port savvy members out there produce a list of critical port facilities. Always struggling with building them not knowing exactly the type of facilities are used to properly model a port. Might even need some new platforms to accomplish this Any help anybody can give would be appreciated. Thinking about an air raid scenario on a Nato Port and really interested in what should be there and be hit to make the strike worth it

I'll go on the assumption that you are trying to close the port to transfer of goods as opposed to just shipping. Besides, it adds flexibility to the problem

Ok the first way to attack a port is to close it using either block ships or mines. Since this is a air only option then you can close it using air dropped mines in the approaches to the channel. This would be very easy in a place like Halifax where there is only a few lanes to use into and out of the harbor. It would also be a safer option to airframes and air crews because most air defences would be placed in a position to defend the harbor installations....not it's approaches.

The next thing to look at is trans-shippment facilities. These are facilities where they transfer the cargo from one transportation medium to another. Large ports have both road and rail hubs and the associated handling gear to move cargo from trains and trucks to the storage areas next to the docks. This especially affects ammunition handling systems that use mainly unitized systems similar to containers that stay as one unit until they reach the front and are distributed. Bomb those and you cut off rail access to the port. It's important to realize that a large volume of air munitions are transported by rail and that it's hard to replace that kind of pipeline using other methods.

Containerization has been a big help in this regard. However it also requires specalized handling gear like top lifters, gantry cranes and rigid turnbuckles to secure the container to the deck and to others around it. It is not very manpower intensive (costing less in wages) and is very fast (quick turn-around time) so the elimination of the handling gear and/or it's well trained personell would slow down operations that much more.

Another option would be to use tactical aircraft to cluster bomb the storage facilities with delayed action bomblets. But the destruction of the gantry cranes would probably do the best job with regards to handling gear.

Finally, while it's not the best option, destroying the docks themselves would prevent ships from docking there while repairs were undertaken. In a pinch NATO could use barges to transfer cargo to and from ship but this would only work for ships that have their own cargo handling gear. It would be very slow going however to get the job done.

To sum it up, the safest way to do it would be to mine the approaches to the harbor. The best long term solution would be to destroy the trans-shipment facilities however I'm not too sure of the status of Soviet inertially guided ALCMs. CEP wouldn't be a problem because of the large size of the target area. Finally the destroying the docks would be a short term solution bit would effectively stop cargo operations altogether.

It's also important to know that the whole place would be well covered with SAM and AAA batteries. I'm no ADA expert but I'd station at the very least one battery of Patriot along with at least one other battery for ow level coverage (Roland, Rapier, etc). Backing this up would be AAA batteries to provide defence of the facilities themselves.

Another option would be to station a SAM equipped ship (Burke, Tico, Type 42, etc) outside the harbor for additional high level SAM coverage. Either way to get inside the port itself you're going to need some serious supression work on the part of the attacking force.

Personally I'd use ALCMs from stand off range. A LOT of ALCMs. Targets would be trans-shipment and storage facilities. If the air defences were thinner I'd go in with tactical aircraft using PGMs to take out the docks and rail facilities.

Later
D

Great stuff Dale

Can you come up with a list of port facilities that should be included in a database?

oh hell...now look what I got myself into

Well, this can be a pretty long list but for the sake of simplicity I'll go with the major NATO ports.

I'd appreciate any help from our French, British, Norweigean list members...I've never been to Norway and it's been quite some time since I've been to France and the UK.

UK - Liverpool, London, Dover (it's the closest port to France), and Portsmouth.

France - Brest, Cherbourg, Le Harve, Calais (the closest port to the UK).

Belgium - Antwerp

Netherlands - Rotterdam (world's largest port) and Amsterdam

Germany - Hamburg and Bremen

In North American major ports there include Halifax, New York, Maimi, Norfolk (ya think?), Galveston.

Other Important Ports - Vancouver, Seattle, Los Angeles, San Diego, Yokohama, Osaka, Pusan, Manila, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Singapore (by far the most important port in Asia), Jakarta, Perth, Calcutta, Bombay, Madras, Al Jubayl, Durban, Suez, Alexandria, Hafia, Gibraltar, Marseilles, Rio de Janerio, Buenos Aries, and Panama.

Typical features of any port:

Warehouses
Docks/Piers
Large Ammo Dumps
Cranes

For the larger ports you might want to include rail yards and even a runway (Norfolk has an air base right next door).

Later
D

I like the idea of building port facilities much the same way airbases are built. Here is a link to the Port of Niigata in Japan. The web site gives a breakout of the facilities there.

http://www.pref.niigata.jp/gateway/engl ... s_east.htm

Cheer,
Steve

Mike,

For my scenarios:

generic civilian port
Piers (bigger port more piers)
a warehouse for each pier
a railroad station to simulate railhead
communications hub (port office)
western coastal radar (port control radar)
diesel tank farm (ship refueling)
couple of large/medium general purose bldgs
if the port has drydock /repair facilities I'll add:
industrial plant (simulate drydock)
generator (also part of drydock)
a few more piers and bldgs (fabrication shops)

generic naval base
naval docks along with piers
ammo dumps
avgas farm in addition to diesel tanks
facilities to handle helos
C3I center

I would like to see a drydock, crane/derrick facility, offshore terminal/anchorage, and maybe a container transfer facility added to the DB2000.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff I agree these facilities would be great additions.
Rag

Still thinking about it some....

(Sorry Mike...seen you on IRC but my buddy called from Ireland...)

I'll use a typical example. Halifax. (I thought the picture was too big to post so you'll have to just visit)

http://www3.nf.sympatico.ca/daleh/temp/bay.jpg

To the left is the dockyard and piers, in the centre is the fueling piers at Shearwater and on the right is the air base at Shearwater. What isn't shown is Halifax International Airport which is about an hour or so by car from the city itself.

The dockyard at Halifax contains ammo dumps, while the fueling pier has AvGas dumps. Shearwater has all the normal stuff that an airbase would have. There really isn't much point in having ammo dumps until you can load ships from the 'piers' but it's nice to have that option ready to go.

Later
D

I have a scenario pending release with the Port of Kobe modelled as far as have been able too. Just a heads up in case anyone planning on a scenario with that one in it.

One thing that would be very very nice indeed would be some way to modify maps. I doubt this is at all practical to be fair, but I can dream ! Many ports don't follow the contours of the land, and or are built using reclaimed land or man made islands etc. It would be nice to be able to somehow or other draw these in.

Steve

Hi folks, here's Gunny, how are you?



Dale, the list you give about French ports is quite thorough. I just have to modify what may be a typing mistake at "Le Havre", and add 2 other ports which are not as famous as the ones you're quoting: La Pallice (near La Rochelle) and Saint-Nazaire (near Nantes). Both have been slowly increasing in importance and vitality (La Pallice has been qualified for the "sea highways" project between France and Spain - load the trucks on ships to not have them on the roads).
Saint-Nazaire is very important because of the oil refinery of Donges near it (someone wanting to unload NATO oil could find there a vast stocking area, something Soviets could attack...Just an idea for a scen designer...).
On the Med, you'got Fos sur Mer harbor (near Marseille) which is the entrance harbor for Middle Eastern oil.

In your important ports, you can also add South Korean Inch'on (also spelled Incheon)which is a priced target for a scen involving North Korea (see Mike's "Wreckage").

Have a nice day,

François "Gunny" Guérin

Have a nice day

The build up of a harbour.

A major harbour, like the Rotterdam Harbour, offers great variety logistical and industrial possibilities for incoming and outgoing shipment, handling/storage and manufacturing of all kind of products.

TERMINALS
• Container terminal (for deep sea, short sea and inland shipping)
• Multi purpose terminal (general cargo)
• All weather terminal
• Roll on/Roll off terminal
• Car terminal
• Fruit terminal
• Juice terminal
• Bulk terminal (dry/liquid goods)
• Oil terminal
• Fish terminal

Each Terminal contains a number of piers (quay’s) with its own specific (infra) structure for receiving, shipping, handling/storage, distribution of cargo.

Cranes:

• Container gantry cranes
• Multi-purpose cranes
• Floating cranes
• Sheerlegs
• Mobile cranes
• Liquid pumping units

Storage:

Tank storage Mineral oil products
Chemical products
Vegetable oils and fats
Juice

Bulk storage fills for iron ore, coal, etc
Silos for grains

Others Refrigerated warehouse
Big/small warehouse (general cargo)

Distribution Specified distribution centre (road, rail, air)
Loading docks (road, rail)
Parking areas (car terminal, Ro/Ro terminal)
Container distribution (logistical processes)

Industry Oil Oil receiving unit / Pump Unit (oil terminal)
Pipelines / underground, surface, overhead
Storage Facility’s (crude oil)
Refinering Naftha cracker Unit
Distillation Unit
Petroleum processing plant
Bitumen plant
Process control units
Chemical Specified
Food Meat Processing
Daily Processing
Juice/fruit processing (handling, storage, distribution)
General Bulk dry/liquid storage facility
Logistical facility
Retail Specified
Recycling receiving and processing of waste materials
Warehousing Specified

Government Harbour authorities
Customs
Local/regional/Federal authorities
Pilots
Rescue
Radar facilities
Etc., etc. etc. (gnagnagna)

Road and railway Connections
Distribution centre
Shunting yard

Commercial Specified

Greetings,
Frans.

Looks like Frans just made a good "to do" list for you Rag...

MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I try to implement an oil refinery as a side/facility in the scn.-modus. But I still have configurationproblems (crashing, out of date (?) video cards, but as soon as I solved that problem, I will provide information about a refinery structure, chemical processing etc. etc.

But it is no only the building of a harbour, but also commercial shipment (database entries) could be renewed.....
Later I'll provide a general list of commercial vessels (types)
Perhaps that they can implement into the DB2000.

Greetings,
Frans

I mean ofcourse the implementing-staff ("they")

Lemme know exactly what you need

Hehe.. Actually probably only 4 new facilities needed.

Terminal
Crane
*Railway Junction/Connection/Node
*Roadway Junction/Connection/Node

* Probably a better name for these. Just important aimpoints on any transportation system.

Terminals is actually quite a large facility. What I generally do is put 'warehouses' right along the shoreline and call them something.

I suppose that if you wanted to be ultra-realistic then you can put ships next to the warehouses and call them piers. Give them an UnRep capability and that could simulate the cranes or something. But that would take a long time to implement considering the number of weapons in the DB.

As for the others aim points should do just fine.

Later
D

It's 4 building/facility platforms Want me to build them and send the files to you I think I have a half hour to spare today

Actually, it was my contribution about harbours and its infrastructure,
most of all installations in the database mentioned can be used to build up a harbour (buildings and structures).
It was however not my intension to ask for implementation into the Database, just to provide information about the buildup of a Harbour.

Greetings,
Frans.

Its my intention though I'm in a "bug people" mood today